Observing.

Question
Hello Jay



Thanks for all your answers, I learned alot from all of them, however I still do have problems with observing thoughts. If you look at all the articles about it on the internet, you can see that they write that you need to observe your thoughts, and thats all, the rest of the article is about the benefits and why you should do it. It is like they excpect that to observe your thoughts is very easy and you should know how to do it perfectly, there is never a detailed how-to.  And again, this may seem demanding, but I do not demand you to even answer any of them. I am just asking detailed, I don't excpect anything.



I will be asking very detailed here, just know that I am not demanding anything from you, even if it may seem so. I am very desperate about this, and I am asking very detailed and specific questions about specific things. I am gratefull for any answer, but if you want to help me the most, please try to answer the specific questions first. I have marked them with "Question:" infront so you can easier see what I am asking for, as I am writing alot about this that is not questions.



So It's basically back to the same thing.



Some days ago I managed to be aware of myself/ what I was thinking/ my thoughts, and I did it perfectly, it was like I finally knew how to do it. And the way I knew that I did it and correctly, was because there was a "knowing" to it. I knew that now I was aware of all my thoughts and what I was thinking. I didn't even have to concentrate much to be able to do it, It just worked perfectly. I thought that I finally got it, now I knew how to be aware of my thoughts/ what I am thinking. But it went away later that day, and I am back to having trouble again, with doing it.



No matter how much I concentrate, sometimes, or normally I just can't observe my thoughts, I just end up getting mad / frustrated, probably because of some negative thoughts being there without me being aware of them. I really don't know how I managed to do it so good that one day witout even concentrating much. This is a big problem to me, this has gotten to the point where it can decide if I am having a good or bad day, depending on my success with this. I just can't accept the thought of living on auto-pilot anymore, or not knowing how to observe my thoughts fully. I feel like a prisoner to myself/ thoughts when I fail.



I feel like a scientist, trying to find out how to observe my thoughts, but always fail, I experiment alot of ways to be aware, and do the same ways over and over in order to be aware of my thoughts. I also have alot of theories about this, and ways to do it. Some conclusions I have made are as following:

You can only be aware of your thoughts, you can not see them, they don't have a location. I don't know if this is true, but from my experience, especially from that day it worked perfectly some days ago, I have come to this. Also I have come to that, when you are aware of them it means that you can verbally hear them or you just know what they are, I just call this "knowing".



Questions:

What do you think of my conclusions? What would you say to be aware of your thoughts would mean? To hear them verbally? Or to know that you are aware of them?



When I try normally, I don't get to be aware of my thoughts instead I just feel like "looking around" for them inside myself. I might be thinking while I do this I don't know, but I always get frustrated. I have also tryed to stay with "myself", whatever I am doing now, because one of my theories are saying that you always are thinking, even while you are trying to find your thoughts you think. I also ofen feel like I don't know what is what, I am unsure if I am thinking now, what I am thinking, if I am doing it right etc. Im literally lost in everything I am doing when I am trying.



Questions: Could you go in details on what you are doing when you are trying to observe your thoughts?

If you ever have failed to do it before, did you find out what you was doing wrong? Do you have any ideas of what I might be doing wrong?



Basically I have concluded that you can be aware of "thoughts", "mental images" and "intentional thoughts", as far as the mental bit goes. Then why is it that sometimes I try to be aware of my thoughts, but end up just sitting there, feeling like I am not aware of anything, yet there is something, but that something is just making me mad, and giving me the impression of that I have failed. Means that I am not aware of either, must be doing something wrong? I must be doing something totally wrong, because the one day it worked, it went so effortlessly, normally it's like a war, each time I try to be aware. Sometimes I just wish I could live my whole life on auto-pilot and that I never knew of any of this, but now that I know, there is no turning back for me, I can never be satisfyed with not knowing and not being aware. Any help is greatly apreciated.


Answer
Hi, John.



You asked me what I do when I am trying to observe my thoughts, but I don't try to observe my thoughts.  They are either visible or not depending on a million conditions.  It is not a goal for me to observe thoughts.  It can be helpful to access thoughts and images, to look at them carefully, to inquire into them.  But it is not the only important thing, in my experience and opinion.



It's clear that observing thoughts does have some importance to you.  Maybe this is because you read that it's an important thing to do but it probably already had some internal importance to you before you even read it.



It also seems that there is tremendous frustration caused by this goal.



I can't know, of course, exactly what this "observing of thoughts" really is for you.  I have a sense of what you're talking about but the internal reality of it is something that you alone can examine.  Other people could use the same words, "observing thoughts", but they may be referring to something very different from what this is for you.  That's why there is no need to feel that the spiritual "authorities" encourage you to do something particular.  Unless you can work with someone else closely, it is quite possible - and probably very likely - that you (and I and other people) are doing a lot of personal interpreting when we hear what others have said.



I think there are some hints that may help you understand better what is helpful to do and what is not.  The amount of frustration that you feel when you cannot "observe thoughts" seems to me to be a clue that you are at that moment setting up an internal goal for yourself and struggling against it.  It also says that you are evaluating one way of being as good (the observing of thoughts) and another way of being (whatever is going on for you at that moment) as bad.



I think you are saying that the "observing thoughts" state is very satisfying for you.  Maybe it's pleasant.  Maybe it has some clarity, so that you can actually function better in your daily life when you are in that state.  I don't know what state it actually is for you.  It's true that sometimes there are moments of quiet clarity that are clearly Good, in that there is less division, less conflict, less or no anxiety.  So I can't really say whether the state you described is some temporary state or is just simple presence.



What is clear though is that when that state is not present - which you are able to recognize - that there is a lot of anxiety.  Maybe you have the assumption that if you had the right power of mind somehow that you wouldn't be in that anxious or confused state.  Spiritual writings may have lead you to believe that some people can learn techniques or achieve states in which they are permanently or more regularly clear.



If you assume this, you can do something to test it.  One thing you can do is to write to "experts" to see if they can tell you what you are doing wrong.  In other words you can try "harder" to do what you assume can be done.



A wiser way to approach this may be to question your assumption.  Consider whether it really is a helpful thing to try so hard to achieve this "observing of thoughts" that you make yourself sick and anxious when it doesn't happen.



You can also look carefully to see - when there is a moment that you are calling "observing thoughts" - whether you actually did something specific to cause that to happen or whether it just happened without any identifiable cause.  Check it out carefully and honestly to see if there is something that you think or do or feel, some way that you hold yourself physically or mentally that causes this "observing" state to happen.



Another thing you can do is to try a different approach to the "negative" state, the state that you don't like, in which you feel you can't observe your thoughts and you get frustrated because you want to, you feel it is critical to.  A different approach to this means to feel into what is going on in that state - without holding back from it by believing you need to change it.  Maybe you've never done that.  Maybe every time you find yourself in it, you already believe you must change it.  And maybe it does need to change. It's possible there is some disfunctional state.  But for something to change deeply, it first must be seen, felt, lived deeply, undividedly - which means we have to drop the resistance to it.  Resistance is holding back from the state you are in, isn't it?  Maybe there is fear that if I don't resist this state, something terrible will happen.  Maybe I'll get stuck in it forever.  This is the pattern of thought that keeps a traumatic pattern in place, prevents it from healing.  If you believe this thought - that I have to resist this state I'm in - this just keeps the traumatic pattern, the fear, going.  You are the only who can experiment with this in yourself.  No one else can tell you that you have to.  You can only become curious to know what this state really is intimately for once in your life, even if it feels like it will kill you.



I'm not talking about putting yourself in a situation that is physically dangerous.  Do be gentle with yourself.



You said that you finally were able to be aware of yourself.  You recognized that this was the state of being aware of yourself because there was a knowing to it.  There was myself knowing it was myself.  It was perfect and complete.  This is what you said.  I would say there is no ultimate truth in this state.  It may just be one part of the mind looking at itself and feeling satisfied.  I'm not saying it's bad and I'm not saying it isn't pleasant and perhaps necessary some times.  I just don't believe it is something to strive for.  But again, I can't know for sure because I'm not inside you.



If you do find yourself in this state sometime, maybe just partially, you can look around to see if this state actually includes everything around you - the sounds, the air, the sky, the ground under your feet, the people who are trying to interrupt you.  Or is this a state that feels complete but doesn't want to be interrupted?  Gets irritated if it's interrupted?



Of course to do that careful examining you have to already be in that state.  When you are not, you can see if you are really out of touch, lost from, unable to see yourself.  Is it true?  Even if the state of mind is confused, conflicted, maybe the body is uneasy or in pain, do you feel that none of that is you? Is there only one little kind of state of mind that is you and everything else is not you?



A great experiment is to test the hypothesis that everything is you. Whatever is felt, thought, heard, sensed is you, whether it is fragmented or is whole.  Whatever is you can only be touched in this moment.  Whatever you are is what is happening in this moment.  To really listen to and feel this moment, one has to let go of trying to change it.  Trying to change things makes too much noise in the system.  It's like stirring up the water in a lake. Then all you can see is mud.



Another clue here is what you have said about being on auto-pilot.  At the beginning you said you couldn't stand the idea of living that way. At the end you said it would be a relief - a relief from the compulsion of trying to achieve a certain state of mind, I think you are saying.



Auto-pilot, as you described it, is in opposition to being, what, consciously aware of what is going on?  I'm not sure.  My only suggestion, for your peace of mind, is to drop being concerned which state you are in and treat the state of mind like the weather - sometimes sunny, clear and healing, sometimes dark, cloudy, wet and unpleasant.  You go about your life anyway, regardless of what the weather is.  Whether it's bad weather or good, there is the air on your skin, the sounds of fans and birds, human beings passing by caught in their own weather system, or human beings looking at you, interacting with you.  Life is not confined to inside your own thinking or body.  There is life all around.   Does it touch you or are you lost in your own weather?



You talk about being aware of thoughts as knowing.  This is fine.  It has a place.  But there is also not knowing, which is much, much deeper.  Most of the world is unknowable.  The knowing mind finds this frightening and runs around and around trying to make it knowable.  But it is certainly the truth that most of what goes on around us and in us is far beyond knowable. You can make an experiment of finding out about letting go of knowing and trusting yourself into the arms of the unknowable.



The irony is that the more one is comfortable in not knowing, the easier it is to see or hear a thought when it is necessary.  But most of the time I find it's not so necessary to hear or see thoughts.  Why bother?  I can hear the wind rising outside, smell the moisture in the air, the thunder rolling in the distance.  None of this requires thought and yet it is clear.  It is the world knowing itself, not the thinker knowing itself.



The minute you read that you might think, yes that is what I need to try to do.  Do you recognize that as a deep pattern of thinking - "I have an image of a goal and I must try to achieve that image."  This pattern exhausts and frustrates all of us.  The good news is that it is much easier to drop it and just sink it whatever "here" happens to be.  Anything that needs to be done here will reveal itself.



Another deep pattern of think is that thinking continually monitors itself. Do you have a sense of this in yourself that something is always checking to see if it is doing it right.  I'm going to use the word "I" because this is how this kind of thinking thinks.  Checking to see if I'm doing it right.  Checking to see if I can see myself.   Checking my "instructions" to see if I am supposed to see myself or not.  Checking for physical sensations that might mean trouble or might mean pleasure.  Checking for states of mind.



Toni Packer, the woman I have worked with for many years in meditation, tells of a time when she was sitting - maybe in retreat - and she had forgotten completely about trying anything and suddenly she was aware of this thought/anxiety coming up "I've forgotten to check in.  Am I doing ok?"  It was clear how nice it had been when "checking in" had stopped.  She then experimented to see if it was possible to get along - in retreat at least - without needing that constant monitoring and checking in.



You may find that monitoring, "checking in", has a life of its own.  It may never seem to stop.  But you can make it an experiment - not to stop it, but to see if it is necessary or if it's ok to forget to check in sometimes.



So your basic question "What am I doing wrong" is based on the monitor.  The monitor is the "I".  The doing and the results of the doing are what it is monitoring.  On rare moments when the monitor forgets to check in, or is too tired to check in, there is a relief from this kind of compulsion.



Maybe autopilot is a sort of zombie state in which the brain has worn itself out trying to monitor everything and do everything right.  So you go back and forth between making a strong effort to do the right thing - which is nothing but trying to monitor everything - and falling into a zombie state, in which you may just follow along automatically with whatever impulses come up.



If this seems true, you can be more gentle with yourself when you have mental energy.  Be more like a mother to yourself than a father.  Accept what you are.  Don't drive yourself for the future.  And then if you enter the autopilot state, be gentle there as well.  I think that if you quiet down with all of this, don't worry about which state you are in, you may find that just in ordinary muddling through life - a little cloudy, a little confused - there is still an appreciation of the world around you, of other people, an ability to listen, to empathize with others because they are also muddling (do you tend to judge others because they aren't trying hard enough to be better?), and a certain intelligence.  



From my experience I would say there is no need to make a conflict between what you "know" about being aware and its opposite (whatever is going on at this moment, regardless of the confusion).  Do you feel like you want to do battle with something?  Overcome your auto-pilot with will power?  Reach the promised land?  These are natural reactions that are built into us - just wanting to work the muscles, sink our teeth into something.  Like our lives depended on it.



But in reality our lives don't depend on that kind of effort.  Our lives depend on being present here with what is going on around us, calmly, grounded.  Being able to hear and see the people we interact with, patiently. If there is anything else that needs to come out, to happen, it will happen best in this vast space of not knowing.



I think I have responded to what you wrote.  Have you considered the possibility of going to a seven day retreat that I mentioned before?  There is much more possibility of the energy of presence to explore these things.  I know of some options in Europe that would be very simple, open retreats.  There are also options in the US at the Springwater Center and I am having a 7 day retreat here in New Mexico the first week in December.



I will look forward to hearing back.



Regards,



Jay